Curse

Cindare Sunstriker · May 27, 2005, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khrysyl

The devourers though seem to be linked. I have stood in place while waiting for a gargoyle to walk into aggro range (look pull), then as soon as he does, the devourers 20 yards behind him unbury themselves and attack as well.

Exactly. I'm not really sniping at the notion of linked mobs as much as the idea that, no matter how far away they are from their natural group (to which they are linked), they can be 'heard' when they call for help.

That's just silly.

Keesa · May 27, 2005, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindare Sunstriker

Without doubt, the devourers in question are linked to the gargoyles.

As to the rest, if you (or a friend) get hit with a rock and when you turn to see who threw it, no one is there.... you either ignore it or you walk over to investigate. (Lure)

You may or may not have one or two of your buddies follow you, depending on whether or not they are as curious as you are (which depends largely on whether or not they got hit with a rock, or saw you get hit). (BAF)

The point being, this is a more realistic response than:

You or a friend get hit with a rock and you all automatially know precisely who threw it and where they are at the moment.

But that's not what's happening. More to the point, my friend gets hit with a rock. Choice epithets fly from his mouth as he charges off to do away with the offender.

Damned straight I've got his back. And if I see who did it and can run faster, I'll hold the perp down until my buddy gets there.

That's a social mob, and that's how GW works. And to establish my credentials since they seem important to OP, yes, I've played rangers in a variety of games, and not just in PvP.

Oh, and the radius for a mob is as high as the radius for a PC. If you want to RP the mechanics, say that the devourers hear the vibrations in the ground as the mergoyle's rate of travel changes dramatically...

Khrysyl · May 27, 2005, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindare Sunstriker

Exactly. I'm not really sniping at the notion of linked mobs as much as the idea that, no matter how far away they are from their natural group (to which they are linked), they can be 'heard' when they call for help.

That's just silly.

That may not be a safe assumption though. I have no doubt that if I were in some kind of real world patrol and came across an enemy my shout (scream?

) would be audible for quite a distance. And quite a few of the enemies we face in GW are magic users, who knows what means they may have of alerting allies?

(I guess I find myself in transition between mindsets. On the one hand I miss being able to use the skills learned in EQ, WoW and Lineage 2, but on the other hand, I have realized for some time (or so it seems to me) just how unrealisic those pulling abilities are in some cases)

Khrysyl · May 27, 2005, 02:17 PM // 14:17

"...the devourers hear the vibrations in the ground as the mergoyle's rate of travel changes dramatically..."

Ah, like the sand worms of Arrakis!

Keesa · May 27, 2005, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Yup.

chojin · May 27, 2005, 02:23 PM // 14:23

I agree with both sides of this discussion.

Coming from a first-person shooter background (Action Half-life rocked), I often found it more fun to use the sniper rifle to skillfully hide and kill from afar. I would of course get called a camper. Those who knew me can testify that I would just as easily and happily take a crowbar to your head, but found more skill in preventing people from finding me. In an 8 person free-for-all, I had the 7 other players trying to get close to me. It takes a lot of skill and knowledge of your fellow players abilities to be a good sniper. Knowing when to shot someone in the leg to buy time to shot someone else in the head can be very important.

But I digress.

Of course, I immediately chose to be a Ranger in GW for the strike from afar capabilities. The profession info states that Warriors are the run in, hack and slash character. Ranger, Monks, whatever, are more of the hang back and kill from a distance. So the frustration immediately starts when you try to use those distance abilities to your advantage, only to find that every creature in the area runs right up next to you.

Conversely, if I were minding my own business and some Ranger shot me from 30 yards away with an arrow, I would probably scream out... thus, alerting all those around me. But in that situation, most people would run from the crazed man with the bow.

What really annoys me is the unlinked situations. When you run up to 2 Grawl to start beating one... and his buddy just walks away!

-chojin

Sting · May 27, 2005, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Well what most non-pulling classes arnt getting is its not just pulling 1 Mob out of the pack it's usually pulling 1 Uber mob out of a pack of uber mobs wich this game isnt designed to be like because of the Links and the mobs are designed only to be 1-3 lvls higher (at least I havnt seen a pack of lvl 30ish Mobs, there might be some but if so Id say they are a single mob), perhaps the closed thing I ran into was the hydra's LOL.

Loviatar · May 27, 2005, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindare Sunstriker

Exactly. I'm not really sniping at the notion of linked mobs as much as the idea that, no matter how far away they are from their natural group (to which they are linked), they can be 'heard' when they call for help.

That's just silly.

the gargoyls and devourers dont have visable rings around them showing what range it will be triggered

example

gargoyle gets triggered when attacked

his calling radius is unknown to us but involves several devourers at different locations

each of those has its own undefined call radius as well which can include more further away as well

just a thought as to why so many can show up from all places around you

asdar · May 27, 2005, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Silmor hit it right on the head. I'd like to group with you some day, most people don't seem to see that.

Multiple linked groups and there's tricks to pulling just one linked group out. I'm not talking cheats, just tricks. One trick involves collision, slowing and corners and that's all I'll say.

You still can't pull a single mob though, just links. If you watch your map for just a few seconds you can usually pick the links pairs out even in a heavily mixed group.

Cindare Sunstriker · May 27, 2005, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdar

Silmor hit it right on the head. I'd like to group with you some day, most people don't seem to see that.

Multiple linked groups and there's tricks to pulling just one linked group out. I'm not talking cheats, just tricks. One trick involves collision, slowing and corners and that's all I'll say.

You still can't pull a single mob though, just links. If you watch your map for just a few seconds you can usually pick the links pairs out even in a heavily mixed group.

Yeah, I've seen that and it is almost as much fun as surgically pulling. But my ranger partner, like Chojin, is annoyed as all get out because he may as well not HAVE any ranged abilities when so many (most) of the mobs in this game just run into melee.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chojin

What really annoys me is the unlinked situations. When you run up to 2 Grawl to start beating one... and his buddy just walks away!

Yes. The inconsistancy of it is part of what makes me annoyed.

Aiwahead · May 27, 2005, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khrysyl

"...the devourers hear the vibrations in the ground as the mergoyle's rate of travel changes dramatically..."

Ah, like the sand worms of Arrakis!

..Get on the rocks!

wait. Wrong movie.

Epinephrine · May 27, 2005, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindare Sunstriker

Yeah, I've seen that and it is almost as much fun as surgically pulling. But my ranger partner, like Chojin, is annoyed as all get out because he may as well not HAVE any ranged abilities when so many (most) of the mobs in this game just run into melee.

Yes. The inconsistancy of it is part of what makes me annoyed.

That tends to happen pre-searing. That part of the game has very low aggressiveness in order to get people used to play.

ethornber · May 27, 2005, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aiwahead

..Get on the rocks!

wait. Wrong movie.

You must walk without rhythm.

chpmmttn · May 27, 2005, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethornber

You must walk without rhythm.

you must pole vault.

grimmolly · May 27, 2005, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindare Sunstriker

Exactly. I'm not really sniping at the notion of linked mobs as much as the idea that, no matter how far away they are from their natural group (to which they are linked), they can be 'heard' when they call for help.

MMORPGs aren't known for realism. That is exactly why bad pulling works so well in many of them that you can see all the enemies and they can see you, but they don't come to help their buddies because of the aggro range. A number of MMOs like City of Heroes and GW have been trying to fix this lately precisely because it becomes boring to constantly fight only one enemy at once and never be challenged by an encounter. I agree with this wholeheartedly, so long as it is done right. Your example seems to be one the developers overlooked, but it's not a big deal. Also, pulling isn't creative. Really, it isn't. It shows some patience and skill, maybe.

Drakenbow · May 27, 2005, 04:43 PM // 16:43

I always thought of the devourers as some sort of 'pets' for the gargoyles... but that's just me.

I agree that there are some situations that are just plain silly. Such as the instance of mobs rushing passed the one person visible to seek out the healer. This is annoying... but I deal. As far as pulling, I take the view of the mob you aggro calls for help from his buddies. I don't think it's great all the time... I would like to "lure" single mobs out and assasinate their ass sometimes too. Like drawing their attention by throwing a rock or something, gag them (so they can't be linked) and take them out... come to think of it... a class devoted to that would rock! Assassin.

Cindare Sunstriker · May 27, 2005, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by grimmolly

Also, pulling isn't creative. Really, it isn't. It shows some patience and skill, maybe.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this point. No worries.

Aug · May 27, 2005, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Yeah, I've seen that and it is almost as much fun as surgically pulling. But my ranger partner, like Chojin, is annoyed as all get out because he may as well not HAVE any ranged abilities when so many (most) of the mobs in this game just run into melee.

Bow range is FAR greater than your proximity aggro range. Much farther.

There are several missions and quests that require you to pull sets of linked mobs out of a huge pack. The first instance I can think of is Althea's Ashes. At the very end of the quest, you encounter 4 or 5 sets of linked mobs that are VERY close together. The quest is much more difficult without a long ranged weapon.

As for providing variety of Ranged mobs vs Melee... there's a LOT of variety! Just outside of Amnoon Oasis, in that one zone, there's mobs that use conditions from melee (scarabs), hexes from range (storm kin), ranged attacks that disrupt (rockshot devourers), melee attacks (minos and griffons). The whole gambit... in one zone! There's plenty of variety... you just don't have control over fighting only ONE type of mob. To see the entirety of mobs in that zone, you have to progress linearly through each group. So you have to be prepared and able to adapt for each encounter.

Asrial · Jun 03, 2005, 08:29 AM // 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sting

As for your ranger friend tell him to get used to being thought of as useless, because rangers are considered a bottom rung class in this game (percieved or actual can be debated but that is the concensus of the majority of players).

If I wasn't a Ranger, I couldn't solo every area I come across.

If I wasn't a Ranger, I'd have lost alot more of the PVP battles I've been in because I couldn't do long range resurrection blocking.

Asrial · Jun 03, 2005, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindare Sunstriker

Yeah, I've seen that and it is almost as much fun as surgically pulling. But my ranger partner, like Chojin, is annoyed as all get out because he may as well not HAVE any ranged abilities when so many (most) of the mobs in this game just run into melee.

Solo, I tend to always be in melee range of the creatures.

Grouped up, usually they're off bashing away at someone else and I'm at range.

Maybe I'm playing a different game.